Glidos and Orthos

Lynn Perry wrote:

Paul:

I tried running TR1 through Glidos
<http://glidos.jiglu.com/discussion/tags/glidos>, with the Direct3d
instead of OpenGL. The game itself seems to work just about as well
through there. However, I also tried running Orthos while doing this.
The same thing <http://glidos.jiglu.com/discussion/tags/same-thing>
happened as before. After several minutes my pc started beeping
intermittently. When I left TR1 to check it, the Orthos had stopped
again and was showing all red with errors.

If the cut and paste will work here, I'll show you an abbreviated
version of the error list.

Type: Blend – stress CPU and RAM Min: 8 Max: 4096 InPlace: No Mem: 767
Time: 15

Paul Gardiner <(Address removed)> said:

Lynn Perry wrote:

Paul:

I tried running TR1 through Glidos
<http://glidos.jiglu.com/discussion/tags/glidos>, with the Direct3d
instead of OpenGL. The game itself seems to work just about as well
through there. However, I also tried running Orthos while doing this.
The same thing <http://glidos.jiglu.com/discussion/tags/same-thing>
happened as before. After several minutes my pc started beeping
intermittently. When I left TR1 to check it, the Orthos had stopped
again and was showing all red with errors.

If the cut and paste will work here, I'll show you an abbreviated
version of the error list.

Type: Blend – stress CPU and RAM Min: 8 Max: 4096 InPlace: No Mem: 767
Time: 15

There's not really any useful information in the output. It just
stresses the machine to see if it will fail. The result is failure
or no failure.

The interesting thing is will Orthos fail when running on its
own, or will it fail in combination with another 3D game?

What's the longest you've had Orthos running on its own?

Cheers,
        Paul.

Lynn Perry wrote:

About an hour and 15 minutes by itself. I had something else I had to do.

Not a peep out of it all that time, and it was still running without a
hitch when I got back to it.

Paul Gardiner <(Address removed)> said:

Lynn Perry wrote:
About an hour and 15 minutes by itself. I had something else I had to do.

Not a peep out of it all that time, and it was still running without a
hitch when I got back to it.

How about running a different 3D game (not one that needs Glidos) at
the same time as Orthos?

clatham1 clatham1 <(Address removed)> said:

If I might stick my nose in where it does not belong … :)

In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Lynn Perry was heard, on
08/04/2007 09:08 PM, and I could have sworn it said …

 

Paul:

I tried running TR1 through Glidos
<http://glidos.jiglu.com/discussion/tags/glidos>, with the Direct3d
instead of OpenGL. The game itself seems to work just about as well
through there. However, I also tried running Orthos while doing this.
The same thing <http://glidos.jiglu.com/discussion/tags/same-thing>
happened as before. After several minutes my pc started beeping
intermittently. When I left TR1 to check it, the Orthos had stopped
again and was showing all red with errors.

If the cut and paste will work here, I'll show you an abbreviated
version of the error list.

<snip>

Press Stop to end this test.

Test 1, 4000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M19922945 using 1024K FFT length.

FFT stands for Fast Fourier Transform. There are only two things which
are important for you to know about it:

(1) it is a particular mathematical problem which requires many
additions and multiplications (a lot of CPU work).

(2) What it is calculating can be checked independently (by running a
different easier calculation).

ERROR: ILLEGAL SUMOUT

The check showed that the result of the FFT was inaccurate.

Possible hardware failure, consult readme.txt file, restarting test.

This is a presumption. Any number of failures could cause the result to
be bad. However, on an otherwise working computer, this usually points
to a problem in the CPU or memory (I'm assuming, from the messages it
put out that this one is integer based.)

So, the two things it is testing are your CPU and memory chips.

And, if you can trust the program to not have any bugs in it, shows that
at some point, either the CPU made a mistake (often because of
electrical failure due to overheating), or you have one or more bad
memory chips.

<snip>

And I have no idea what a ILLEGAL SUMOUT is. :(

And you don't need to. Like I said, its just saying that something is
broken.

So this doesn't even tell me what possible hardware has possibly failed. :(

It can't, it is not a diagnostic program, it just tests things. Sort
of like jumping up and down on a table. If it breaks, you know the
table is "weak", if it doesn't it's "strong". Either way, you do not
know why!

Another thought just occurred to me. Is the Orthos program designed in
England? I heard the main AC voltages used there are different than
here. Our main AC voltage is usually 115 or 120 volts for regular house
current. Could the difference in voltages make a difference on how the
programs respond?

<snip rest of theory …>

No. The power supply in your computer compensates for this. In fact,
if you look at the back of it, it probably has a little switch to allow
it to take either kind of electricity. (WARNING: do not flip that
little switch the other way, it will definitely break your computer!)

Solo.

:)

To sum up:

Running this "Orthos" software and GliDOS/TR at the same time definitely
stressed your computer's abilities.

It did not tell you anything except that "it don't work all the time".

What to do about it:

You need diagnostic software that tests specific components of your
computer one at a time, and will tell you specifically what part failed.

There are 1,000 places on the Internet offering "diagnostic" software
for sale and for free … half of it is spyware/malware/crap. So be
careful, and only get software from places that check for these things
(like download.com). While this won't guarantee a good program, at
least it work make things worse.

Since your computer seems to start normally and run Windows without much
trouble, you have a real advantage. I would recommend starting with
software just to monitor temperatures while running TR:

http://www.download.com/Everest-Ultimate-Edition/3000–2086_4–10662415.html
(free for 30 days, don't buy it unless you want to)

or (to specifically test memory)

http://www.memtest86.com/

Though, this second one may already be on your PC, so the first thing I
would do, in your situation, is check the memory. There should be a
switch in your BIOS setup to turn on better memory chip testing when
your PC boots.

You will have to look at the manuals that came with the computer to tell
you exactly how to do this. Some computers include memtest86 in the
BIOS to specifically give your memory chips a good test because they are
a likely cause of things like this.

If you want to take things further, there are tests you can run (that
take hours) to test all parts of your PC. I use this:

http://www.v-com.com/product/Fix-It_Utilities_Home.html

But it is not what I would call the best, though it might be a good
start, since its not all that expensive.

My advice:

(0) (before anything else!) MAKE A BACKUP, or TWO! Sorry to yell, but
just testing your computer can actually break it worse than it is now.

(1) Do NOT run any "cleanup" or "speed-up" software, I do not think that
would be causing what you see. Most of those programs don't do anything
substantial (including the one I use, above)

(2) Run tests (one at a time) in this order:
        Memory, CPU, video, sound, hard drive
        (from least likely to permanently break things, to most likely)

(3) If you run a test, and the machine crashes … and even though the
software may not be able to tell you what happened … that is the most
likely cause of your problem. (So, if you run a test on memory, and the
machine crashes … chances are good, its a memory problem and not the
CPU, but crank it up again and run the CPU test just in case).

My guess: Memory failure (one or two bits on one particular module)

POST codes normally only are good for booting. After that, self checks
on operation are pretty limited. Memory checks, CPU overheat, and disk
integrity is usually all you can rely on.

If you hear random beeps, and almost everything seems OK, but the
software you are running at the time starts to malfunction (but when you
stop it, Windows seems ok), then its probably a minor memory failure, or
the disk is corrupt somewhere in the middle of where that particular
program, in this case GliDOS, is stored.

But that's just a guess.

Hope this helps some.

Ken

Lynn Perry wrote:

I tried running Return To Castle Wolfenstein with Orthos. Same problem
<http://glidos.jiglu.com/discussion/tags/same-problem>. Either the game
would crash, or Orthos would crash (without showing any reason on the
splog...in fact, without even showing an error on the splog), or the
whole pc would crash and restart.

Paul Gardiner <(Address removed)> said:

Lynn Perry wrote:
I tried running Return To Castle Wolfenstein with Orthos. Same problem
<http://glidos.jiglu.com/discussion/tags/same-problem>. Either the game
would crash, or Orthos would crash (without showing any reason on the
splog…in fact, without even showing an error on the splog), or the
whole pc would crash and restart.

Pretty conclusive then. Your system has trouble either with heavy
3D load, or with combined heavy 3D and CPU/Memory load.

Might be something that can be helped with BIOS setting changes.
I'm guessing its an AGP based system; slowing AGP down from 8 times
to 4 times might help, or turning off fast writes (or whatever it
is called).

Probably you should get someone out to take a look at it.

Cheers,
        Paul.

Lynn Perry wrote:

I can get into the bios setup at the start, but I have no idea what I'm
seeing while I'm seeing it. Remember, I'm not a computer whiz. :(